Re: Re: Klingon WOTD: ram (n)

["Scott Willis" <magicspiderwebb@hotmail.com>]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@mail.com>
To: <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:46 PM
Subject: KLBC: Re: Klingon WOTD: ram (n)


> On Sun, Feb 29, 2004 at 12:29:03PM -0500, RNButler2@aol.com wrote:
> > doesnt maj'ram mean good night
>
> -Mark
> I've added KLBC to the subject so the beginners' grammarian will jump in
> here,

And jump in I shall.

> -Mark
> but the answer to your question is no.

And "Yes"...

It doesn't mean exactly the same thing as English "Good night", but the
ircumstances surrounding its use are similar. According to KGT, ppg 119-120,
this phrase is uttered by parents to their children, or by good friends on
the night before a batlle, upon retiring. It is likely that this is all that
remains of two longer utterances, {maj, ngaj ram} "Good, the night is
short", meaning that there will not be too long of a wait before the next
day's activities can begin, and {maj, nI' ram}"Good, the night is long",
suggesting there is plenty of time for rest and dreaming. Okrand mentions
that this is often rendered as "Good night", but that translation falls
short.

> -Mark
> {QaQjaj ram}    May the night be good (in general).

maj.

> -Mark
> *{QaQjaj ramlIj}    May your night be good.
>         This is one possible way to make the night's goodness specifically
>         relevant to the person spoken to, but I don't really think the
posessive
>         suffixes can be used this way.  In what sense does the night
belong to
>         the listener?

This is strictly my opinion, but I do not have a problem with this usage.

> -Mark
> *{SoHvaD QaQjaj ram}  May the night be good for you.
>         Another possibility, but this is a questionable use of -vaD.

{chay'?}
"May the night be good for you." Looks fine to me.

> -Mark
> {ram DatIvjaj}  May you enjoy the night.
>         Wholly unobjectionable but possibly not the intended meaning.

You're right. Not a grammar error in sight. }}: )

--ngabwI'
Beginners' Grammarian,
Klingon Language Institute
http://kli.org/
HovpoH 701230.2